Folklore Friday

Ep:26 A Discovery of Witches, review part 2

January 29, 2021

A Discovery of Witches has soooo much to cover that I have split this review up into 3 parts. |

| MIN MARKERS |

|1:30 | Everyday Folklore, Broken Mirrors

| 6:10 | Beginning chit chat and banter

|11:00|  Review of A Discovery of Witches, part 2

|INFO REFERENES| Everyday Folklore, If you break a mirror you get seven years bad luck.|

https://www.twowaymirrors.com/mirror-superstitions/  |   

https://www.framemymirror.com/5-superstitions-and-myths-about-mirrors/

https://www.illuminated-mirrors.uk.com/blog/7-years-bad-luck-the-truth-behind-the-superstition/ |

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326082213_The_broken_mirror_syndrome_vs_constructive_self-criticism#:~:text=The%20broken%20mirror%20syndrome%20is,knots%20of%20negative%20emotions%20and |

https://folklorethursday.com/folklife/seven-years-bad-luck/ |

| MUSIC CREDIT |

"Glass Smash, Bottle, C.wav" by InspectorJ (www.jshaw.co.uk) of Freesound.org

“Easy Trip Trap” The Brothers Records,

“Skeleton Dance” by Myuu

“Heaven and Hell” by Jeremy Blake

| DIALOGUE CREDIT |

INTRO

"A werewolf can be killed only with a silver bullet?"

- THE WOLFMAN

"Because I'm the chosen one and there are vampires"

- BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER (film)

"You in danger girl"

- GHOST

"My name is Sabrina Spellman, and I will not sign it away."

- THE CHILLING ADVENTURES OF SABRINA

"Am I dead?"

- THE VAMPIRE DIARIES

"We don't allow black magic."

- LEGACIES

"Witches aren't real."

- CHARMED

"Once the world was full of wonders but. . . . . . It belongs to humans."

- A DISCOVERY OF WITCHES

"I myself am, strange and unusual."

- BEETLEJUICE

| TRANSCRIPT |

Megan Erickson  
Welcome to folklore Friday.

 

Megan Erickson  
In the episode description I have listed the segments of the show with their minute markers. That way you can skip right to what you want to hear

every day.

breaking a mirror is seven years bad luck. This superstition is believed in various parts of the world. But where did this belief come from? Many cultures believe that a mirror can be a window to the soul. Which is why many folkloric beliefs are that supernatural creatures such as vampires have no reflection because they have no soul. The lore of seven years bad luck upon breaking a mirror is thought to originate from Roman lore. The belief was that every seven years life and the soul would renew itself. And any parts of your life that were not quite right would fall into place and all would be right. A mirror was thought to have a window to the soul. So if a mirror was broken, especially if your image was the final thing it reflected, then you were bound to endure seven long years of misfortune until the cycle ended and your good luck was renewed. And since we are human, we are prone to be clumsy in one way or another. So there were measures that could be taken to avoid misfortune if you happened to break a mirror. Some of the rituals included taking the shattered pieces and burning them by the light of a full moon. Or taking one fragment to a cemetery and placing it against a tombstone to transfer the bad luck to someone who no longer roamed the earthly plane. The thought was the bad luck would dissipate into the ground since the soul was no longer there to attach itself to. In Russia and Kazakhstan, breaking a mirror evicting evil spirits from their home, they will hunt the person who caused the damage as an act of revenge. In Fung Shui a broken mirror distorts good energy. In Switzerland, the last person to look in a broken mirror is the first to die. But others claim your misfortune depends on how the mirror breaks. If it breaks into small pieces, your bad luck will be small. But be afraid if your mirror breaks into large pieces, because your bad luck will be significant. And once the mirror is broken, looking at your reflection in the shards is bad luck in both India and Russia. in psychology, there is a term called the broken mirror syndrome. It is applied to women who have suffered domestic abuse from a male partner. The thought is that she no longer sees herself as whole and complete, but broken, only viewing herself through the eyes of her abuser. Although this term is metaphorical, it does paint a picture of how viewing yourself through the distorted view of an abuser can make one feel broken. Is it possible that in the past when people would see their reflection And broken pieces of a mirror, it would scar them psychologically. Could it be that seeing one's reflection literally broken into pieces was so emotional, that it was easy to think that misfortune lay ahead? To see one space in shards could remind someone that As humans, we are breakable physically and emotionally. And the lives we live are just as fragile. So, which is it? A superstitious belief that the soul renews every seven years? Or the psychological effects of seeing one's reflection in broken glass? Tell me, what do you think?

Unknown Speaker  
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Megan Erickson  
Okay, hello again. So I'm joined again by my friend, Holly. Hello. Oh, and my name is Megan, I keep introducing my guests, but not myself. So I'm your host, Megan. And Holly is doing a FaceTime with me because I he, I went through and I was editing our episode. And there was just a few things that we said that were inaccurate. We were comparing this story to another story. And we were just bashing on that other story, which there's a lot to bash but the things we were saying weren't accurate. And so there's a lot of that I couldn't use. But this because Holly, and I think very similarly. Yes. And there was just also some good stuff that I wanted to talk about that we didn't talk about, and it gives me an excuse to call Holly so on if you don't know, Holly lives in Spokane, I live in Bellingham. So that's why we're doing FaceTime. And I let I when I went to visit her and her husband, I logged on to two of my streaming accounts. And then and then I said, you need to watch this show on this one, and then this show on the other one, and so I gave him Hulu and shutter and it hasn't affected us at all, by the way, like so cuz I told Chris, you like what? I was like, Well, I'm the one that pays for Hulu and shutter. So I think I can decide. He's like, okay, but if it cuts out, like, you gotta change your password. But it's totally fine. But you guys watch Brooklyn nine, nine, which was the show that I suggested.

HOLLY  
Good. Oh, my gosh.

Megan Erickson  
It's so good. What else have you been watching on Hulu?

HOLLY  
So let's see. So we did nine, nine, and I'm not gonna lie oh nine.

Megan Erickson  
Andrew Knight quoted all the time. Now. It's so easy to do. It's so fun.

Unknown Speaker  
It's so amazing.

Unknown Speaker  
And then I found out that chip and Joanna Gaines is a fixer upper. And I used to watch that show when I was younger and actually had to be. And I remember some of the episodes and oh my gosh, I flipped when I saw that on there. And so I started watching that. And then I realized that I can only watch it on weekends. Because I was watching it during the week. And then I realized I was not going to bed. I had to like pace

Megan Erickson  
yourself.

HOLLY  
Not watch it during the week. I'm only allowed to watch it on weekends. So I guess what I'm doing?

Megan Erickson  
I've done Yes, I've done similar

Unknown Speaker  
show is that it's just like it makes you you get so involved. You can't help it. Next thing you know, it's like two o'clock in the morning and you have to be up at 5am like,

Megan Erickson  
Oh my gosh, that just happened. Yeah. I think that's why Chris and I have the rotation rule. Like we don't just binge something, we say okay, let's watch an episode of The Great and supernatural and criminal minds. And so because you're getting this like, mini story, but sometimes they'll get on a kick. There's some shows that are too much. You can't want like Katherine, it's called the Great bits about Catherine the Great you would not like it. It's like, it's really explicit. Like when they do sex stuff. They do sex stuff. When they do violence. They do violence and it's like oh my god and so that's the show. You can't binge. So we usually do our harsh shows first, and in the medium, and then we end on a comedy because I can't end the night on criminal minds, because I'm just like, Okay, I gotta cleanse my palate. So we always have. Yeah, we have an extreme show, a medium show and a comedy. And our comedy right now is How I Met Your Mother. editor's note. Btw, I am aware that there are things that can be problematic with How I Met Your Mother, because it's an older show. And since this podcast is half film and TV reviews, I'm aware. It's an all white cast. And one of the characters is pretty much a womanizer. So even though I watch it, I acknowledge it's problematic. Just had to put that in there. Okay. So that's like what we watched when we're done watching the others.

HOLLY  
Yeah.

Megan Erickson  
He's strange links. So because this is a review of a full season, I have the review split into three episodes. So this is more so a review for fans of the show a discovery of witches, because there is so much to talk about. The book series is jam packed, and so is the show. There's so many different themes and metaphors that I am in love with. And so I do think it's worth my time to talk about, I don't think I've split anything up into three episodes before, but I love it. So and so I hope you enjoy. Okay, so we split this episode up into two parts, because there was a lot to talk about. And we're re recording some of it. So some of the audio is going to be different, because I'm going to include some of the stuff that we said. And then I'm going to include some of this stuff. So I'll be all wonky. But as someone that wants to analyze things, I'm going to always analyze them in a fair way. Even if I don't like the story and this story I love but there was another story we're comparing it to, which I don't like and I was giving a lot of bias opinions. So and being an adult, so I'm correcting myself. Okay, so one of the things that we talked about is that there was a review that said that this story was derivative, and derivative, meaning we've seen this storyline before. I don't agree with that. And here's some of the reasons why. Number one, the vampires had no things. And when we were watching that, did we even talk about it? I don't even think we talked about it. It was just

Unknown Speaker  
I feel like we mentioned it at one point. But everything was just so smooth. I don't know if this is like the right way to put this. But whenever they would bite somebody was always so smoothly done. Uh huh. That I never really thought you think oh, yeah, they don't have. Yeah, I don't know.

Megan Erickson  
No, it's so true. Because weird to think about, it was really an effortless kind of story to watch. And they didn't focus on the blood. And the gore. The story was, the storyline was all of these different things happening. And it was only until I was going back through it with a fine tooth comb to get clips for the podcast, and I want to do like a YouTube review. For I was like, Oh, that's a huge difference very, very big. Because it's so good. Oh, no,

Unknown Speaker  
I was just gonna say cuz I cannot think of like, there are a decent amount. I mean, even just all the different versions of Dracula that are out there, like just all the different versions and different genres of vampire. And as far as I can remember. Now, granted, you may want to double check me, but as far as I can remember, every single one of them, they always had things like that was one of the key ways is to tell that someone was a vampire. Yeah, you had some that until they were ready to feed their things would grow for the board

Megan Erickson  
drop down. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
exactly. Or Yeah, you know, like, yeah, or they would just be there all the time, or, you know, for whatever reason, kind of thing. Yeah, but they were always there. Like it to some degree. And so, to me, it's just such a weird concept to think I know Empire without bangs. I just, it just kind of blows my mind.

Megan Erickson  
It's really unique. And I think it goes into because we talked about how the demons also just look like people. And everyone looks for the most part human unless you're supernatural. You can like sense things. And it just goes into that. I don't know it, I really liked the way she wrote it. Because they all there's all of this like, intolerance between the species and like, it's like a metaphor for racism. And yet, if you stand them up next to each other, you're not going to know who's who, or what's what you're not going to know, a demon from a witch from a vampire from a human because they all look the same. And there's just something kind of like really equalizing about that. And it's, it's interesting. And so about the things there was like one part because I was trying, I went through it, and you can see him bite. But there's only one part you see actual, like bite marks, and it's when Matthew was fighting with Baldwin.

And he bites Baldwin, and when he pulls his head back, it's a full bite mark. It's like, if you bite into an apple, it's not like the two things. And so I was like,

HOLLY  
Oh, my God. Yeah,

really? I know.

Megan Erickson  
And that's, and that's something that you'll find when you read the book is the way Deborah Harkness writes it is she compares vampires moreso, to Wolf's than to bats. And it's this really, really unique, they don't really have a lot of time to do that. In the show. There's one part in the show where Diana's trying to figure out what she's going to feed him for, for dinner. And she has like her laptop open, it says feeding habits of wolves. And that's like the one thing that they should. Yeah, and I didn't, because we were just into the story, I didn't want to be that person. I was like, no selling the book. It says, oh, but they do get more into it in the second book, because they go back in history, err in the past. And there's different things where people say, oh, a werewolf, there was a werewolf attack or whatever. And they say that all things, people that they thought were werewolves, they were actually vampires. And it just psychologically felt better for people to imagine that it was an animal like creature, rather than someone that looked human, which is very, like spot on for psychology. And so even though I freaking love werewolves, that was my only problem with this whole series, is that it didn't have vampires, witches and werewolves. I was a little bummed out. But the more I got into it, I appreciated how unique this storyline was. Because it's no it just never has been done before. Where they're not like that. They're actually like wolves. And it's, and when you read the book, you're, you'll appreciate that because it's like, all these nuances that, you know, the show didn't have time for and it's, it's interesting.

HOLLY  
There.

Megan Erickson  
Okay, another thing we talked about, but I want to bring up again, because so here's the list of things that makes this a unique story is that there are adults and it's not a teenage girl, and a vamp and a male vampire, which is really popular, Twilight, Vampire Diaries, Buffy. Like, those are like the big ones as far as like TV and movies that come to mind. And this is just not that that coupling. Right.

Unknown Speaker  
And I also we were talking, I don't know if this is gonna, like, jump us or anything. But we also talked about like, because she's not a teenager, like her style, and everything is much different. Like, she's, you know, the things that she thinks about as a teacher aren't the same things that like Buffy the Vampire Slayer would, would be thinking about as a teenager. And so it kind of brought in a whole new. That makes sense. It kind of Yeah, it's like a whole new concept. And how we were talking about like, how we love that she just, she didn't look dolled up.

HOLLY  
Mm hmm.

Yeah. She just she just looked like a professor.

Megan Erickson  
Hold on a second. loki My dog is whining at me baby.

Sorry, Holly. I know. It probably wasn't picking up but he was like whining at me. And I was like, No, the wrong time. Yes. So going back to music she did. She looked like a professor. She dressed like a professor. Her the things that were in her life that were important to her were very independent and adult driven. And they they could have made a change and gussied her up from the character in the book to what happened in the Siri in the TV series, but they didn't. They stuck to it. And I was doing some research and Deborah Harkness the author was like a huge part of The TV show, so, um, she like approved every casting and a lot of the costuming. And it does like if you look at, like she's a nerd, like she dresses like a nerd because she is one. And it's so it's so good. And it just kind of helps cuz

Unknown Speaker  
I feel like you can be seen as a nerd even when you're guessing that, yeah, if you're going to a job that you love and are literally just surrounded by books, it's like, I don't know, when I get into my book mode. Oh my gosh, like books don't have eyes, they don't care what I look like. And so, in one of the first episodes, where do you see her getting ready for work? And all she does is like look in the mirror and then throw her hair up into a ponytail. And then it heads out the door with a piece of toast and coffee. Yeah. And that's like, done. No, I found that so many times. Go to the library. Yeah, you know, and it's like it is this is one of those things where it's like, you are so more prepared to do the studying of the book and to find out the information, then you would care to like, I mean, you do put some care, you know, you'll wash your face, they'll shower, you don't look like you walked out of a dumpster. But you're not gonna be a professional, you know, hairstylist and spend an hour on your hair or whatever. But it's, it's just that that nuance that they brought in to really just show who she is and what she's focused on. Later. I just, I really loved how they did that. And it makes sense that the author was part of the entire casting, and everything because whenever that happens, I usually really love the series. Because it does it follows along with what she saw in her mind, and what her story was about and making sure that it sticks to that.

Megan Erickson  
Yeah, so and it's really good because like in the book, they talk about how she has like really unruly on rulli I can't say unruly hair, like it's kind of like she can't control it. And they could have flat ironed her hair, they could have like, made it look pristine, but they didn't. And I mean, it didn't look bad. But yeah, the first like couple episodes, she's just so excited to go to the Bodleian Library and work on her research paper. So she just doesn't do a lot with her hair. And it's not, I'm not saying that like putting on makeup or getting gussied up. And being feminine is bad. I'm just saying, this is another thing that makes this story unique. Because you're not seeing this airbrushed teenage girl, you're seeing this woman that's so excited about her research. And that is her world. And that's what's important to her. And that's not something that we've seen a lot and I'm not saying like Bella Swan was gussied up, she was very plain. But it's it's just the fact that they could have chosen to make this character look different. But they didn't they stuck to what was like true in the in the book. And that was and that was really great. And I kind of wonder if because it's a it's a production of the UK. that that wasn't an issue because if you watch American films, it's there's just a lot more. I don't know there's more supermodels looking people. I feel like when you watch American productions versus like, things from the UK.

HOLLY  
Right? Oh, and

Megan Erickson  
on and on that note, this doesn't this isn't part of the list that makes a derivative, but it is a change. So in the book is about the Claremont was actually like, way younger she like appeared to be in her 40s. And so her and Diana looked way closer in age. And there's like a scene in the second book, which she says, move out of the way my daughter in law needs to come through and like everyone in the restaurant is like why your daughter in law because they're only like 10 years apart. But they made her older in the TV series and I actually think it worked a lot better because it gave that more of maternal feel for his elbows character, rather than Oh, your quote unquote mom that sire do is pretty gorgeous. Are you sure you've never had a romantic thing with her because it's not like a blood relation when it comes to siring vampires. It's very different. But the fact that they made her older, helps to like for me to be like, Okay, this is actually working for me. I appreciated that.

Unknown Speaker  
And that was actually another thing that I really loved about her character. That because when you first hear about her, you haven't met her yet, and the witches and you know, the witches are talking about her and they're like, Oh my goodness, like you Can't stay at her house like she caused all this damage. All these problems like builds so many of our kinds, and then later you find out it's because they killed the love of her life.

Megan Erickson  
Yeah. Not like bad, which is Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
yeah. And not only that, but that because I feel like with a lot of vampire stories, because they have such a long lifespan, they tend to have many a lover. And yeah, that's true. I love that she spent 1000s of years with one person and guide, she never left like she refused to change his office was still there with her.

A Discovery of Witches  
This was your husband's office. It's still his

office.

Unknown Speaker  
I loved that they brought that aspect into it. Like, and I'm not saying that this has never been done. Yeah. To have a couple be in love for that long and to not have flings at least or something.

Megan Erickson  
Yeah, no,

Unknown Speaker  
it's it's just, it was very, I really loved that aspect. I love that they brought that in. And then of course, you also have those other characters that are just like, Yeah, no, I don't ever plan on getting married. And I don't ever plan on Yeah, just one

Megan Erickson  
person. Like, yeah, I

Unknown Speaker  
want to live the free life. And I'm like, and again, that's totally fine. Just to have like, I loved that they didn't just make one main brand of a demon or a vampire or in this, like the, like you were saying, like, line them all up, and you wouldn't have been able to tell. And I love that she did that and so many more aspects than just the fact that

Megan Erickson  
they all look human. Oh, you just reminded me of something? Um, yes, that is true. I never. I've never thought about that. Before that Felipe and his co just chose to love each other for years upon years. And there's something like that aspect of eternal love. Like they have that and I it is really like heartbreaking but romantic. When Matthew says, oh, that used to be Felipe's office and she goes that's still his office and you're just like oh my heart. Oh god. And okay, yeah, now is about was gussied up but that's because she's supposed to be she has a fancy lady and they did great like, God that shot when they're like going to her castle set tour. There's just this like shot of the back of the back of her as she's like walking down the stairs. And she her hair is like impeccable. Just this perfect, like French roll. Oh god. Like, even when she goes hunting. She has like, like fancy writing gear on and like leather gloves. And so but that's because that's her character. She's this exquisite French ancient vampire. I they did good with her. I really, I really liked that. I loved it. I loved it. It was done. So well. Like it was a great introduction for her character. And they did because it's a series they had time to, like introduce these characters visually. Because you don't have you got to do like quick introductions, like you know, in Harry Potter, they had a lot to jam into like one movie. But with this they could take their time and you could see Isabelle walking around her magnificent castle and like looming waiting for Diana and Matthew to come you. You can take time, you know, getting to know these characters. And I thought that was good. Um, you said something? What did you say? You were talking about? I don't remember what you said. But it reminded me of you see, like different types of vampire. So like, there's good and bad in every species. I think that was that. Okay, so you kind of see how Matthew and Marcus and Miriam are in their conversations when Marcus tries to turn his friend into a vampire because he's dying and then it doesn't work and it's really sad and really awful. I'm gonna find that quote, hold on. I have like another page. So Matthew is picking up Marcus and they're they're driving in the car and he says Matthews kind of scolding Marcus a bit and he says, Did you get his consent as in to turn him into a vampire? And he shakes his head No, because he's like, he was dying. I was trying to save his life.

A Discovery of Witches  
Think of the risks took you could have been seen. James was my friend and a brilliant doctor. I can bear full potential to go two ways you can get consent. Chrysler cars, how many times just be told right?

Megan Erickson  
You get very upset and raises his voice. Because in so you see that there's that setup of you asked for their consent. So with this group of vampires, changing someone without consent is a huge No, no. And so then when you see that, and then you see Juliet and jubair, to bear doesn't ask her, he just bites her neck and drinks her blood and reads her memories, no questions asked. And so it's a really good setup to be like, oh, and then these guys, they don't care. These guys are the bad guy. And it was just, it was a really good way to set up what's important to these characters and how they act. And then they did the same thing with the satu, the witch that tortures Diana, the first time you meet her, magically, like grabs the guy, she doesn't even touch him and pulls him down to the ground. And then she says a spell on the earth opens up and swallows the guy, and then he's gone forever. And so it was, it was a really good way to show who you're rooting for.

Unknown Speaker  
And then that actually carried me on to another thing that we had mentioned about the territory's how, like, there's, you know, with some shows, it's like, if a vampire is not invited into a home, he literally is stopped from going into that. Oh,

Megan Erickson  
yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker  
That's not the case. It's not the case here. Yeah, they don't go into each other's territory out of respect. And there are rules that if you are caught in some somebody else's territory, they do have the right to basically destroy you. However, if you have not gone into their territory, then it's a whole, like, it's amazing. The amount of hit, I feel like almost like hidden politics were put in your world that a lot of people don't even know about. And this is how they run. This is how they survive. If we don't want to start a war. We stay off each other's land. If some of one of your guys comes onto my land without permission, I have every right to kill him.

Megan Erickson  
Yeah, right. However I want and it's like that's an agreement between the three species and everyone's fine with it, which is why he takes Danna two sets or because it's to Clermont territory. And so the fact that a witch comes and kidnaps her, it's like, Okay, this is this is war, you not only came on my territory, but you took a guest that I had in my home that was under my protections, a huge deal. Very big deal. Oh, so good. I love this show so much. Oh, and I know, we talked about this before. But another thing that I appreciate about this is that it's not human and vampire. It's not predator and prey, but it's a vampire, a powerful vampire with a powerful witch. And so they're equally matched. And I don't know if I said this in the last one. But there's this level of restraint for both parties. He has to restrain himself from wanting to feed on her and she has to control her magic, so she doesn't murder anyone. And so that's, that's, that's another thing that makes this unique is because most vampire stories, it's all about the vampire controlling himself. And it can be a metaphor for like sexual drive, you know, oh, I don't want to push this girl to do something she doesn't want to do. But I want to do all the time, because I'm a man, you know. And so it's that is derivative. We've seen that a lot. And this leads into most vampire stories are just a love story. It's just the relationship of the vampire and the human, and other things happen around that relationship. But in this story, it's all about the book of life. And the reason that Matthew and Diana meet is because she finds the book of life, and it's a huge deal. And it has potential to give each of the species like power over the other one. And he's the only one that says hey, by the way, danger. And she's like, whatever, you're a vampire, we're not supposed to talk go away. And then people come and they threatened her. And so the reason that they're drawn together is because of this book. So there's this whole other story going on, and their love story happens within that story. And that's another reason why this is a more mature, kind of like storyline to follow.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, I did love that even in like so when he's first telling her all of that, like, you know, so when you get this book, just so you know, people are gonna try and kill you. Yeah, she is. She says like, whatever. You're a vampire that I've heard stories that have that. And then it's like, all of a sudden all these people are trying to kill her but the people that trying to kill her are so nice. Because I want to get

Megan Erickson  
Yeah. And he's just honest with her. Oh, my God, that's true. Nice.

Unknown Speaker  
Oh, and he likes she's like, Are you threatening me and he actually gets offended. He's just like, No, I'm

Megan Erickson  
mourning you. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. And it's just like it was just such an amazing moment because it's like, cuz even me in my mind when I think of vampires I think, you know, an animal type species like I think of animal instincts, animal urges, you know, there's those uncontrolled things. Trouble will contain everything that you just yeah, you know, it's just instincts. And here, they're not just including that, like, they're also including the fact that you just made me sound like a horrible human being. Yeah, I actually a person that was rude of you. Why would you do that? It's just like, just such a turnaround for me. I just love that scene. So but Yeah, I did. I love that kind of how he's, I mean, any seems be compared to everybody else. He seems like he's just being an absolute jerk to her. When really once you get through all of it, you realize he's the only one giving her the facts? Yeah, not sugarcoating it for her.

Megan Erickson  
I love I love the way you said that, because they're all nice to her like Peter Knox is like, Oh, I knew your mother and all this. And then Julian says, come over for tea and spill your secrets, you know. And she has no idea that they're, they're just trying to get the book from her and everything that she tells Jillian Jillian tells Knox. And so when she figures out, oh, these guys aren't good at all. She goes back to Matthew. And that is a good, that scene is really, really good. It's just her and she's walking. And you can tell she's like, panicking because she's you know, she puts her hand against the wall, or the, like, cobblestone wherever she is, and, and all these things start to add up. And you see scenes of like Jillian saying, Oh, these things get out when really you know that Jillian's the one that spread them around, and, and she's crying a little bit. And then the next scene, she goes to Matthew. And she basically says, You said people will come after me. And you're right. And he asked her, why did you come to me? The only one that didn't want to hurt me. And she's asking for help. And what I like about that story is, it's or that part is asking for help isn't a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. She wants to know who her allies are. And instead of thinking of the things that she's been taught, which is in vampires don't mix, don't talk to them, she goes, I'm going to get over that, because I definitely don't want to be like those guys. The Witches that want to kill vampires, and this vampire was only trying to help me. So I'm gonna go do that. And that part is like a turning point because she decides to get over that kind of discriminative thinking, and she's asking him for help. And I thought that part was like, it was also like, a really mature part of the storyline. And that, and that is when they really start to be like, interested in each other. Because then she starts asking him, how old are you? And it's just such a Oh, it's such a sexy idea. This, you know, like, 2000 year old vampire talking to a historian like, that's gonna make any historian excited.

Unknown Speaker  
Oh, my gosh, yeah, I could I like, what he's like talking about the people that he's literally had conversations with, like, scientists and amazing people. And she's freaking out, just like, That's so cool. And he's just like, it's normal. And I was right there with her. I was just like, yeah.

HOLLY  
We're gonna get lazy.

Megan Erickson  
It's so good. She like, there's this look on her face. The extreme, I'm gonna do like a reaction thing on YouTube, where I just like take scenes, and I go, this is what's happening in this scene. And this is why it's amazing. But there's this part where she goes, how old are you? And he's kind of standing sideways. And he just turns her he gives her like this, like kind of smirking, smile, kind of like, wouldn't you like to know? And he doesn't tell her he like doesn't tell her until like, the fourth episode or something. And it's just, it's so it's so what's so sexy about that is that it just wasn't it hasn't been done before into. She's not just interested in him as what he is, but who he is and what he's seen and that that's sexy. Like that is a very interesting concept. And there's even a part in the series where he's talking to his friend And Hamish who's a demon will do you? Do you love her? And he's just talking about how she is and, and the things that he you know the qualities he likes about her. And he's like, well, how does she feel about you? And he says, she's a historian. I'm her latest research project. And he's kind of like, the she like me, or does she just like, the life I've lived, and he's kind of like a little insecure. But he's also mature enough to recognize, I hope she's interested in me, not just the life I've lived, which is really good that they pointed out his awareness of that whole situation. And so, oh, it's just so it's so good. Oh, okay. And I didn't make a list. But some of the historical things he says he knows Charles Darwin. He knew Shakespeare. He knew the guy that came up with that first understood that the heart was a pump. Don't remember his name. And then he knows elicit he knew Elizabeth Tudor. So he wasn't just like, he was like a man about town. This guy like he knew people. He wasn't just there when things went down. He liked new kings and queens. And it's just so cool. Because after they have that initial conversation of, Oh, I'm pretty dang old. And he understands that she's a historian. He comfortably brings up things regularly after after they're like starting to get to know each other. Like, she's like, what do you smell when he's smelling his wine? He says something about currents. And he was like, oh, Elizabeth Tudor loved them. They ruined her teeth, though. And it's just like, Oh, God, like, it's just so interesting. I yeah. So that is such an excellent way to tell this type of story.

Unknown Speaker  
Well, and I love like, again, even with that example that you just gave where she, where she's asking, like, what do you smell like how you smell like, she wants to see the it's, in my mind. It says she wants to see the world how he sees this world. Yeah. Not only is he much older, but his senses are heightened. Like, when we smell a rose, you know, we smell a rose. But if he smells a rose, it could literally just overpower him. Because the sense that he may not like the smell, just because it's so strong day.

Megan Erickson  
And he's smelling like other things to

Unknown Speaker  
things that we don't even notice. Yeah, it's just like any things like when he talks about hearing heartbeats and stuff, and it's just like, it's like, that's something you can't help. Like, it's just something you hear her. But it's like, for us, it's like, heart beating right now. Like, we're just standing next to each other. That's so cool. Yeah, I love her. She shows that like, she shows that interest not only in him, but his story. Cool. Like you knew all these people. But I also love learning about you in this world today. Yeah, I think they really did a really good job. Try that was a lot of really nice job of making sure that they showed that, you know, even though as a historian, he really is just an amazing person to talk to you. But as a person, he's also just a really amazing person to talk to back that as they keep going. They realize that both of their goals are the same kind of are the same goals. They both want to make sure that nobody has power over somebody. Yeah. They both just want to make sure that everybody's equal. And so they're both trying to do whatever. They can make sure that this book that can give people the power to over rule, everybody else doesn't fall into anybody's hands that's actually going to try and overrule.

Megan Erickson  
Oh, I am so excited for you to like keep I want you to read like all the books, but you got to watch. You got to watch it and then you got to read it. But it's more than wait because like the the book is hidden for most of the first book. And for the second book as well. It's only like at the end really like oh, and then like something happens but like it is freaking worth the wait. It is so good. I think there was the book. I like didn't expect it. I was like oh my gosh, that's amazing. There's so it's so good. You're gonna nerd out cuz it's it's really late. I gotta get my phone charger from downstairs. I'll be right back. It just blinked at me.

HOLLY  
Welcome back.

Megan Erickson  
Okay. Okay, well, now I want to talk a little bit about Out of breath.

I just like to hear myself going.

I hate that. I like ran up the stairs was like the worst feeling in the world. You're like,

Unknown Speaker  
damn it.

Megan Erickson  
I should not be that out of shape.

When I come up,

Unknown Speaker  
and by the time I get to the apartment, I'm just like, I can't read. I can't read. And I'm just like, I am not out of shape.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Megan Erickson  
It's a bad feeling. Oh, man. Okay, so I want to talk a bit about the witchy stuff, because it's really easy to talk about him as a vampire and their relationship, but her kind of journey into like, finding herself is really cool. And to like, read about it in the book. And then to see it visually represented. Oh, my gosh, because they did, it was like better than what I had in my head. And that, you know, that rarely doesn't happen, at least, you're like, well, I like the book better. It's really easy to like, go down that road. But I didn't feel that way at all. And I think part of that is because it's a series, they have eight episodes, 840 minute episodes to go through a book. And so they have time to take time, basically.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, to get those little hidden nuances in there and all the little hidden gems that they can pull out and, and you might not even realize that it's there until like, three episodes later when it's like, oh, yeah, they did do that, didn't they?

Megan Erickson  
Yeah. Okay.

HOLLY  
I love that.

Megan Erickson  
I'm glad you brought that up. Because I is it if I what I think of when you say that is she has these different dreams about spiders, and like being like in spider webs. And one of the critics said, Oh, when you see a woman, like have her third dream about spiders, you have to wonder how high your tolerances I was like, Yeah, but she was those dreams had purpose. wolky I can't play right now.

HOLLY  
Okay.

Megan Erickson  
Thank you. Sorry. He's just like banging at the door. Okay, so she, yeah, she has these different dreams where she's like in bed, and she has this giant spiderweb like across her body. And then you Yeah. And I thought they did really good. And then you find out that she is spellbound. And the way that she spellbound is that she was laying in bed as a kid and her mom's like, okay, honey, we're going to tell you a story. And then her dad did this spellbinding. And it looked like a spiderweb. It looked like they were like tying these things over. And as she's getting spellbound, her mom is saying, well, her parents had to tie her up and little ribbons. But one day, those ribbons would be free. And she could untie them when she needed. And it's just kind of like, Oh, it was such a sad part of the story. Because she didn't know. And so the reason that she felt like she wasn't a good witch, all of her life is because she was actually spellbound, but they were spellbinding her to protect her from Peter Knox, because he basically wanted to, like snatch her up and trainer at some special, I don't know, training place. And so that's why they did that. But what did you think of how how they did that storyline as someone that didn't read the book, like seeing all the spider dreams and then seeing it later? How did you think that that was executed?

Unknown Speaker  
It definitely. So in seeing the spider dreams, I just I mean, when they're showing something that many times know that they're trying to foreshadow something like you're doing it very blatantly. And so, you know, it's got to be kind of a big thing, because they're not trying, you know, some some foreshadowing is just very little. And it's, it's kind of okay, if you miss it, because it'll be thoroughly explained. You know, it's just kind of one of those things that if you miss it, it's fine. If you catch it, it's cool. But this was one of those, you know, foreshadowing moments where it's like, you need to know this, because this is a big deal. This is going to be a big piece later on. And so I definitely kept trying to think of what it would be for and I just could not, I mean, I also I'm not gonna lie, Andrew, can attest to this. I hate spiders. They freak me out. I don't like them. I'm totally fine with them. Being in nature. I'm not going to just sit there and stomp on spiders out in nature, because Yeah, however, you if you're around me and Andrew long enough, every once in a while you'll see the secure Andrew say, Holly don't look. And but because he's trying to hide the fact that there's a spider close to me so that he can kill it before I see it. He should say,

Megan Erickson  
Look over there in like the opposite direction.

Look at that corner to your right.

Unknown Speaker  
Left is just as bad. I'm just like so usually to my left and be like, Oh yeah, I'm pointing to my left. Oh, right, go right. But it just looks at me like, dude, you're doing right? I don't. But yeah, and so I definitely saw that full circle. I saw that as a foreshadowing. And so once I did once they did bring in the the fact that the parents had to spell bind her and when you see what that spell looks like, and I mean, how many of us remember things from when we were super young? And honestly, is not anything like what actually happens?

HOLLY  
Yeah. Kid

Unknown Speaker  
minds. And you know, and with the story that's being told by the mom. It's very psychologically understandable. That is a dream that she would have. Because after seeing and I mean, it really does. It looks like little spider webs that are just you know, faffing around. And even though the moms like oh, yeah, they're beautiful little ribbons just wrapping around to protect the girl. But I mean, if it looks like a spider web, then a kid's gonna be like, Oh, yeah, pretty little spider web. Yeah. And if you keep going, you just remember that spider web part. You lose a lot of it in translation. And so it made to me, it made a lot of sense, as a child growing up, that that is something that would have better, especially since it is something that because I mean, obviously when you're when you've got magic that's that strong. And it's trying to literally break out of you. Yeah, I mean, you see that even in the very first episode, like, when she first comes on screen, they show her her magic trying to break out of her. Yeah. And she hates it, it freaks her out.

Megan Erickson  
She's like, Oh, no, no, no, no. And Mike looks around. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
yep, with the papers. Mm hmm. And so it's, in my mind, it would be very understandable for a brain to do whatever it can, because that's the another amazing thing about this show is I feel like they are very, very in tune with a lot of things that happen to a normal person,

Unknown Speaker  
right?

Unknown Speaker  
And so our brains are hardwired? To give us answers.

Megan Erickson  
Exactly, yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
see something? Or if we hear something our brain is hardwired? To give us an answer to it. If something sounds like water, like water dripping, as water dripping, right, not actually be water dripping, but our brain immediately matches it up to what we already know. And something that she already knew was spider webs. Yeah. So it's and for something like that, to be such a big deal in her life for so long. And for her it to be something that really affects her, you know, as she's growing, and just knowing that she's this horrible witch, because she doesn't want to be a witch, she's no good at magic. She never has been. And it's like, Okay, this is just something I don't want in my life. And but you can still feel it inside you trying to break out. And it's like, and to see those spider webs. I could, like psychologically, it just makes sense that that is what the brain would connect to get that answer. And I just really enjoyed it.

Megan Erickson  
I really, I'm so glad you did. Because like, in the in the book, it was, you know, like reading like, oh, and then she has a dream that she's covered in spider and I was like, okay, but like seeing it was really cool. The way they did it with the music and the lighting was, it was really good. And I think it did what you said like it painted this picture of, she had this kind of like trauma as a kid. So psychologically, this is her brains way of saying, This is what happened to you, you know, and the and it's so it was so good. Okay. And that also reminds me so there's a part where Matthew is explaining to her, how he's studying different creatures, and they're like, I don't know, DNA markers. There's probably a better way to say that, but he's saying like, okay, here's a witch from 1500. And here's her DNA. Here's one of her descendants, and she has less of the witch markers, meaning her magic is decreasing and this line of witches that The cells or whatever in their bodies are decreasing. And he explains that the more witches are depend, or the less witches dependent on their magic to survive, like a 15, which from the 1500s, is probably going to use her magic a lot more than somebody say, in 2018 that has technology and can buy like groceries from the store instead of tending to her own garden, sprinkling them a little magic on there to make sure that her family's fed. It makes sense. And so he says, the less witches use their magic for survival, the more and more it's decreasing. And he says until they'll eventually become extinct. And Diana's reaction to that is very big. And she's shocked, obviously. But when I watched it the second time, I realized I realized, oh, because she's not using her magic. And so late, because as Matthew is explaining, he goes, the more and more that happens, they will any kind of pauses, and, and then I realized, Oh, she's not using her magic. She's part of the problem. And after he paused, it goes extinct. So he's kind of like saying, Yeah, like, if you have kids. Yeah. And it's, it's very poignant, because she said, I don't want to use magic because my parents died. Because they used magic. And people persecuted them. And, and that's how they were murdered. And, but it's also kind of shocking to realize, oh, but if I don't use magic, does that mean I'm part of this problem, that my family line will eventually just be human because I chose to not use it. And that's like, that's really that's really hard hitting and I do think that that has a lot to do. I don't know if I was in that situation. Are you like, well, I gotta do some spells man, because that is no bueno. Like,

Unknown Speaker  
that is not good news.

Unknown Speaker  
Isn't that crazy? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
I definitely understood the whole like, but I always, you know, even though they said the word kinked. And everything I had always said to me, it always went into Oh, they'll become human. They just won't have magic, right? And so in my mind, I was like, oh, they're not really extinct, because they're not dying. They're just not no longer magical. But then hearing you say it like that. It's like, No, no, like, if they no longer have magic, then witches will no longer exist.

Megan Erickson  
Yeah. They'll just like a witch. One day, we'll have a baby and the human and they won't have that in common. And oh, there's this Oh, go ahead. I'm gonna

Unknown Speaker  
that drags me over to the winter. So I said, I'm sorry. I'm so bad with the names. It's the the to Diem

Unknown Speaker  
ends.

Unknown Speaker  
And, and for their couple. They're married. Yeah, the couple and the girl is pregnant, and later, and she's a demon. And you know, and she's married to a demon. And later on, you find out that Oh, yeah.

HOLLY  
Parents work witches.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. And that is a big deal. is a witch? Yeah. And it's like, so they're doing everything they can to kind of hide everything. Like well, crap. Now what like that had never been heard of was two witches getting together and ending up having a demon baby. Mm hmm. And so it's like, and I but I thought it was so interesting. Because like, as you go back into genealogy, obviously to find out what happened and see that yes, you actually do have demon and witch blood in your bloodline genes in your bloodline. And so that is one it's kind of like and I'm not gonna lie it started getting me thinking on like, how somebody can have all brown haired people in their family like mom dad brown hair. oldest son, oldest daughter, second oldest son brown hair, and then all of a sudden the fourth kid bright red hair. Yeah. Just kind of like wait what happens and then later on you find out Oh, no, you actually have a pretty strong you know, Irish beam in your family. Yeah, so you've always had these

Megan Erickson  
you they've just never they're just never surfaced before I said, Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  
Now Yeah. And so I always thought so hearing it that like that. Oh, that's how I thought about it was all these different, you know, little things all of a sudden popping up and I just thought it was so interesting. And I loved that they kind of like they didn't obviously be like, Oh, yeah, check out Jenny ology, but it was just like, no, knowing your history, knowing your pass can help you to prepare for your future. And I like concepts because that whole learning from past mistakes and using it to better the future. I love that concept. And I feel like that was not obviously it wasn't like a main story, but I loved that it was it was a john here.

Megan Erickson  
Yeah, it was a good part of the story. Um, so that couplets Sophie and Daniel, and Nathaniel's mom, Agatha is on the congregation. So she's a representative for the demons. And they wait to tell Agatha. And she's like, it's Sophie's decision. She goes, No, I need to tell her and her husband says, No, I don't think you should. And then she explains, I think that our connection is so strong, because she's a witch. And well,

A Discovery of Witches  
I was born of which.

You're a witch? No, no, I'm,

I'm a demon. But, but my parents were witches and my grandparents and

there is before them.

The baby could be a witch,

I've got a pretty strong feeling that she is.

Unknown Speaker  
And you can tell me, if our baby is a witch born of demons, should we everything the congregation fears and wants to destroy? can trust me? My god, I don't want to put you in a difficult position.

A Discovery of Witches  
I'm your mother.

Unknown Speaker  
You come first. Both of you do. I miss child, grandmother. My loyalty and love are to you.

Megan Erickson  
So that's her saying like screw the congregation, if you Your parents are witches and your babies, which I'm going to protect you. And that was a really good moment, because she could have gone either way. Because if they if the congregation finds out, they could try to kill her and kill her baby and stuff. And it could have been like really bad. But you see her character and where she's going. And then eventually, she gives them information that leads them to Diana, and it's really good. I want to I gotta pull up this quote. Okay, so this is Matthew talking about what will happen when creatures go extinct.

A Discovery of Witches  
It's not going to happen immediately tomorrow, but it's already been gone. One day, they'll be just one species. Humans. Frost, they won't notice the difference, because they've never noticed us. But gradually,

Unknown Speaker  
eventually, they'll come to see all the magic has seeped out in the wild. And I look around them. And everyone will be the same.

HOLLY  
And I actually love that they did that.

Unknown Speaker  
Because if you think of all these animals that are starting to go extinct, like even in our world right now, right, and thinking of other animals that have gone extinct, I mean, just look at the dinosaur. There are absolutely none left, there are one and two creatures that are distantly distantly related. But that's it. And so I like how he said how it's not just going to be like a big, oh my gosh, everything's just been sucked out like a vacuum. Because that's not how that kind of stuff works. It's one individual at a time. Yeah. When you're at a time kind of thing. It's never just a quick thing. And so But yeah, I like how he mentions how everyone will just start looking around and realize that there's just literally no magic in the world anymore.

Megan Erickson  
And isn't that Oh, it's so poignant, because it can be used as a metaphor for so many things like, yeah, animals that will probably go extinct in our lifetime. And, you know, and there's a big concern with bees. And there are people where it's their job just to rehabilitate bees. And then now there's certain regulations, bee workers with that make honey, there's regulations, because it's like, yeah, we want honey. But you know, we want even more to make sure that bees still exist and are pollinating different flowers. Because if those flowers go away, then that's gonna ruin that ecosystem. And it's just this huge domino effect. And so to think about just one thing, going away, it affects it's a huge domino effect. And it can be, it can be so bad. Oh, it's really it's really, really good. metaphor, I think, which is really great. 

 Join us next time for part three. Please rate and review and share with your friends if they're little strange things like you. Thanks for listening.

I hope you'll join us next time. scare you later.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

 

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